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Best Healer ?

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guardsman2011
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Post time 2016-9-5 06:31:37 | Show all posts |Read mode
Best Healer ? Reply:49| View:22060
Edited by guardsman2011 at 2016-9-5 06:35

Who do you think the best healer? After play for months, there are my experience about them

1- Aishah
-Her ultimate is the best healing overtime, with ~ 100 AT first, and 2 turn after that with 40% AT each turn, for entire team. But if her ultimate come more often than 3 turn, the effect of 2 turns heal overtime does not stack. This healing set as 1 hit, so its insane when crit.
-Her normal Skill heal 3 target with about ~ 80% AT, and give them 10% DR for 2 turn, and its cooldown is 2 turn too? This is really a strong skill, total healing is about 250% AT, and it give a buff of 10% DR.
-Her passive is strong too, steal 200 rage each 2 turn, its too good for a healer.
-Overall, she is good tanker healer at bot front spot, and less effective at mid or top front, because her healing is about healing overtime. The normal skill is also count as an aura 10% DR for 3 members as long as shes alive.

2- Thera
-Her ultimate is best healing aoe at once, with ~ 150% AT for entire team. The healing is set as 4 hits, so make its very stable healing even when crit triggers.
-Her normal skill Heal 1 target with 200% AT, cooldown 2 turns, and remove all debuff on the target. This skill is decent, total amount of healing is not high because it easy to be waste by overheal, only the effect remove debuff is nice.
-Her passive give 10% DR entire team for 2-4 turns (depend on upgrade), not so bad. But if the fight becomes longer, its obsoleted.
-Thera suit best for the top or mid front spot tanker, those spot that take heavy damaged. Her ultimate is not limited by overtime effect like Aishah, so more damage, more rage, more heal.


3- Flora
-Her ultimate heals 2 targets with huge amount of healing, buff rage and attack. Its easy to see shes the best for 3 characters team.
-Her normal skill heal 1 target each turn, also give rage. Thats mean she doenst have normal strike, but thats great, because who need healer does some useless weak normal strike and feed enemy some rage?
-Her passive maybe the strongest of them all, 250 rage each turn, more ultimate, and make ultimate be the most effective compare to others healer.
-Flora, like Thera, is suit for heavy tank spots. Shes the best at counter shock, focus, spike damage, therefore, the disadvantage of her is to counter aoe damage, shes need atleast 2 turns to heal entire team.

4- Main character
-Main character for healing is meta now, i think. Why? because we need 1 healer and 1 supporter, and while there are 3 mythic heroes, the supporter is a must, there is only 1 option left is replace healer with your main.
-MC healing skill is combine and better version of those 3 healer, bigger amount of aoe healing due to MC AT, with better effect (15% DR with Emerald set). Normal skill is strong too.
-The only real disadvantage of MC healer is the bonus stats from augument for MC is balance, not tank focus like 3 healers, so you waste some small amount of potential for main character. But who care?
-MC healer is not too tanky, so he can stand on the bot front spot.

So, after analysis, i give mark to the healers
1 Main Character: ultimate 10, normal 10, passive 10, tank 6. Total 36
2 Aishah:  ultimate 9, normal 8, passive 8, tank 9. Total 34
3 Flora: ultimate 7, normal 9, passive 9, tank 9. Total 34
4 Thera: ultimate 8, normal 7, passive 7, tank 9. Total 33

Whats your opinion?

P/S: After thinking awhile, i remove MC with costume out of poll, its better
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 guardsman2011 Last edit in 2016-9-5 06:31:37

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zela
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Post time 2016-9-5 10:17:14 | Show all posts
You've made a few errors in your analysis. The 3 legendary healers do not have the same stats, defensively. Thera overall has the highest survivability, with Flora having the lowest, Aishah being in the middle. Offensively, their stats are also different, with Flora having the most, Thera having slightly less, and Aishah getting absolutely crushed by both of them. Also, your analysis of main characters in general is far off. They're absurdly defensive in comparison to other heroes. Main characters inherently have lower ATK and higher DEF than all non-tank heroes, with the same level of upgrades and gear, unless you invest massively in outfits, mounts, and accessories.. then main characters are equal in ATK, and much much higher in DEF in comparison. Overall, when comparing the 3 healers with main character as healer, the only one that could be argued to be worse than main is Flora. Aishah is healing more, and providing DR, plus reducing enemy rage, and Thera is healing a ridiculous amount more.

In short, your rankings are way off... Thera is by far the best healer in the game, with Flora and main fighting for last place, with Aishah in a distant 2nd from both ends.
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  • Also I'd like to mention that a 3 mythic build is laughably stupid... it has absolute 0 strategic thought behind it. Essentially just like trying to ram through steel walls with their face. It works if you smack hard enough, but who has the money to make that actually work? Moira only works as a solo carry build. Thus a 3 mythic build is absolutely pointless.
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    2016-9-5 10:21  Reply
  • Thx for reply.
    -First, 3 Mythic build is not stupid, i saw it in every top formation, simple, because those mythic heroes are stronger than any legendary dam dealer heroes no matter what formation setup and strategy. Some heavy cashers even dont care about healer, or support, they have 4 dam dealer formation.
    -About 3 Legendary healers, their stats are the same, only different skills. You cant say 2 heroes with the same stats who is tankier.
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    2016-9-5 12:37  Reply
  • If you take a look at their Augment, you will see the differences of the Healers. For example: Aishah has 38% DR, Thera has 41% DR while Flora has 39%.
    And Flora's Ultimate doesn't buff Rage.
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    2016-9-5 19:53  Reply
  • -The augument stats are almost the same, if there are some differences, they are not much.
    -I checked the Flora ultimate, and you are right, it doesnt buff rage.
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    2016-9-6 02:55  Reply
  • instead of healing flora is the best on the game so take her maybe zela are right but whatever you see in thera and aisha she will heal all team but only give across 30-50% pv max all depend about attack but if you take flora she will can 70-100% that why i play with her , with her normal skill she give more than 300khp to my rei  7 440Kpv and she's not really cheated in term of equip and upgrates. after all depend about what you need , if just a healer flora but with more support ect.. then choses beetwen aisha and thera
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    2016-9-6 05:15  Reply
  • Reply guardsman2011 :In the Abyss, 2% DR worths 5% HP and 3% DR worths 10% HP. You shouldn't ignore the small differences. Adding them up will create an obvious difference.
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    2016-9-6 08:16  Reply
  • Reply guardsman2011 : So your argument is that people paid money into this game therefore are good at strategy? That's flawed beyond belief. Money won't make you smart, but it can make you strong in this game. The top formations are all hyper heavy cashers, meaning that they never needed to learn the game to succeed... they can just buy their wins, so most never learned how to actually play, learn the game mechanics, or strategize.
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    2016-9-6 09:22  Reply
  • Reply guardsman2011 : By the way... you're talking to a VIP 0 that takes on heavy cashers regularly... and often wins. So don't even bother saying that no strategy can overcome raw power. That's just you rationalizing your own inadequacies as an impossibility.
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    2016-9-6 09:25  Reply
  • ye sitting on level for years that makes sence
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    2016-11-8 04:09  Reply
  • If your healer survives, and you have a survivable Dora...
    Your healer will do well (any) I use Thera, easy upgrading her *hint*
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    2017-3-1 08:53  Reply

 zela Last edit in 2016-9-5 10:17:14

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heymlich
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Post time 2016-9-5 21:20:44 | Show all posts
Still I like Flora a lot. She can counter focused damage, which I consider te most dangerous one. Also, no one mentioned that that Aishas heal over time can't crit.
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 heymlich Last edit in 2016-9-5 21:20:44

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stopper90
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Post time 2016-9-6 07:05:02 | Show all posts
Edited by stopper90 at 2016-9-6 07:06

2 many words, make it short.
ps/ best heal is a main with a costume
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  • I second this, main has a high survivability baseline and can be ramped up in what it lacks with costumes jewelry and the like. Also coming with the fluidity of not ALWAYS needing to be healer and the choice of skills (whether just dream skills or maybe dream ult and ocean normal, or even something like dream ult and academy normal) with the varying costumes that are already out and the ones to undoubtedly be released in the future.
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    2016-11-9 02:43  Reply

  • thieves and scammers transfer made zero topazów
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    2019-4-21 17:51  Reply

 stopper90 Last edit in 2016-9-6 07:05:02

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guardsman2011
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 Author| Post time 2016-9-6 16:49:37 | Show all posts
Edited by guardsman2011 at 2016-9-6 16:52
Reply guardsman2011 :In the Abyss, 2% DR worths 5% HP and 3% DR worths 10% HP. You shouldn't ignore the small differences. Adding them up will create an obvious difference.

I think the formular is different. There is nothing prove that 2% DR worth 10% HP, its just the cost of stars in abyss. In fact, 10% DR means 11.11% more HP, 20% DR means 25% more HP, so on, 50% DR that mean 100% more HP, ... But remember, DR can be counter by Dam Increase, example, if enemy have dam +30%, and you have 45% DR, thats mean you take -15% damage.

Reply guardsman2011 : So your argument is that people paid money into this game therefore are good at strategy? That's flawed beyond belief. Money won't make you smart, but it can make you strong in this game. The top formations are all hyper heavy cashers, meaning that they never needed to learn the game to succeed... they can just buy their wins, so most never learned how to actually play, learn the game mechanics, or strategize.

Hey, im not talking about casher or free player, Im talking about the best possible healer, by cash or not.
Everybody agree that cash doesnt make people smarter, but it provide a wider range of choices, and BR.
If you notice, that my P/S said that i remove the choice of Main Healer, so we could talk about 3 healer, not the Main Healer with cash, ok?
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  • It's not my point. Because you say the differences of the Healers are not much, I convert the difference in DR to HP (bigger numbers) so that you might change your mind. Do you at least agree with me 2% or 3% DR worth something?
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    2016-9-6 17:40  Reply

  • thieves and scammers transfer made zero topazów
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    2019-4-21 17:51  Reply

 guardsman2011 Last edit in 2016-9-6 16:49:37

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heymlich
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Post time 2016-9-7 08:59:32 | Show all posts
Edited by heymlich at 2016-9-7 09:01

Just converting DR% into HP% is incorrect. You could calculate it like this, if there was no healing. But there is, and it actually is the topic of this thread. DR helps your healer to keep up, HP doesn't. So 20%DR is worth much more than 20% (or 25%) HP.
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  • Thera's DR - Flora's DR = 2%
    Thera's DR - Aishah's DR = 3%
    --> not much different according to guardsman's post
    2% DR = 9 Abyss Stars = 5% HP
    3% DR = 18 Abyss Stars = 10% HP
    --> bigger numbers.
    No complicated formular in it
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    2016-9-7 11:30  Reply

  • thieves and scammers transfer made zero topazów
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 heymlich Last edit in 2016-9-7 08:59:32

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zela
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Post time 2016-9-7 09:21:50 | Show all posts
Guardsman, if you were talking about the best possible healer with or without cash, that's Thera with 0 question. Flora cannot handle AoE even remotely, and both main healer and Aishah can't get close to Thera's healing. As I've said many times... Thera is without question the best HEALER... however aishah, flora, and main all have support skills, whereas Thera really doesn't. To be frank, main healer is nice, for midas players, but both Aishah and Thera can do the heals better, and main characters are amazing as dps heroes thanks to accessory skills. As a side note, if something works best for VIP 0, that means it's the most efficient path, which also means that it would be the best for cash players as well. If something does NOT work for VIP 0 yet works for cash players, that means it's a very poor build that only works if you overpower the enemy, meaning that they'd do far better using a different build.
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 zela Last edit in 2016-9-7 09:21:50

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gjs
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Post time 2016-9-7 21:44:34 | Show all posts
I'm not an expert on strategy, but I'm suprised that on a discussion about healers there's no mention about supports. It's a healer's job to keep the team alive, and the supports all help their healer with that in some way or another:

Kay can help Aishnah a lot by increasing dodge and stunning an enemy DPS. Every dodge and stunned DPS means less damage that Aishnah needs to heal back. She can be a bit unreliable at times (dodge is partly luckbased, and stun doesn't work on some pve bosses, Pamela and Pandora), but most of the time Kay does help quite a bit with reducing the damage that team takes, making Aishnah's life easier.

Liz feeds a lot of rage to Thera so she can spam more of those superheals. She also stuns, but mainly the rage gain is what helps Thera.

Athena's shields negate a fair ammount of damage to all teammembers, and they really make up for Flora's downside of only targeting 2 heroes. The 40% DR buff also helps keep a damaged hero alive, but mainly the shields are a huge help for Flora. Without them I think it's a safe assumption Flora could not keep 5 heroes alive against a strong enemy.

Of course you don't have to match all heroes to be of the same nation, and even if you do, the MC can be in any nation. And yes I realise this thread is a discussion about healers, not supports, but since they help the healer so much in their role of keeping the party alive by making up for the healer's weaknesses and/or giving extra survivability to the team, I don't think they should be left out of the discussion...
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  • Agree 100%
    Especially about Flora   Athena
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    2016-9-8 06:59  Reply
  • Also You might think that the liz stun doesn't do much but with 3:
    Liz, Thera, Theresa  you might be stunning their entire front row
    Also, those 3 are very commonly used in celestial formations, its usually those three plus victoria or llane
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    2016-9-8 07:07  Reply
  • I agree with you gjs, healers need their support team to be effective.  Having said that I run Aisha and Kay on my main but under my second account I run Thera and Liz and I personally think that this combo is more effective than the tempest combo.
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    2016-9-8 19:16  Reply
  • Not to ruin the mood here, but Liz's main benefit isn't even the rage. Her ATK and DEF boost far outweigh the benefit of either Athena or Kay's ultimate without the rage. The rage is just what pushes it to an unquestionable superiority.
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    2016-9-10 10:38  Reply
  • IMO with any game of this type the "correct" answer is always: They all have different strengths, so the best one for you depends on your formation, playing style, and lineup...etc etc lol
    Everyone will always have their favourites and insist they are "the best ever, you're dumb cos you don't use her!!".....but that is the point of playing a strategy game...to experiment and discover your own best game
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    2018-4-17 11:01  Reply

  • thieves and scammers transfer made zero topazów
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    2019-4-21 17:52  Reply

 gjs Last edit in 2016-9-7 21:44:34

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olo.xpxp
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Post time 2016-9-8 06:58:14 | Show all posts
You did not consider the fact that Aishah is weakened when dealing with single target enemies such as llane, the demon set for MC, and Pamela's attack

Similarly Flora has hard time with AoE attackers like Moira, or Victoria
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  • People also tend to under value the fact that Flora actually heals every turn, and never attacks unlike all other healers.
    Sometimes having a healer that just heals and nothing else can be desired too.
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    2016-9-9 11:30  Reply
  • the main benefit there is in rage, you're not generating rage for the enemy that way. It still amounts to less actual healing than any other healer.
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    2016-9-10 10:36  Reply
  • well, since Athena has to cover up for flora.
    She can't be like Liz and give rage to the team
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    2016-9-16 08:50  Reply

  • thieves and scammers transfer made zero topazów
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 olo.xpxp Last edit in 2016-9-8 06:58:14

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greggers72
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Post time 2016-9-9 18:42:12 | Show all posts
Asking which healer is best or which character is best is rather like asking how long is a piece of string ;) All three healers have their strengths and weaknesses and given a particular situation one healer might be better than another.  Plus the overall team setup, of which the healer is one cog in the machine, has as much an impact on which healer is better as the actual healer themselves...

Great to see a discussion like this though
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 greggers72 Last edit in 2016-9-9 18:42:12

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