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On the issue of Control

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oldboy[eu8]
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Post time 2015-8-21 00:09:46 | Show all posts |Read mode
On the issue of Control Reply:6| View:1012
        Hi,

        Recently went up against a very interesting opponent in Arena, and thought I would post some thoughts regarding the strategy behind Control.

        Control should be an exercise in attrition, not aggression. Including too many DPS aligned heroes into such a line-up can work against the overall purpose of the team. In the video below, I faced a stronger set of heroes, but I feel Pyrona was out of place. Hecate/Djinni would have been a much better pick to support the rest of the team.
       
I think sustain is much higher value in a Control team than added DPS. Just take a look at the Light Envoy vs Soul Slinger. She didn\'t rage once in this fight, which lowered her value considerably. If this continued, the result would have been very different. The rage steal on Styxx, is roughly the same as the gain from Light Envoy but the angel is supported by Soul Slinger, which should work to rage starve the opponent.

        As is pretty evident from the video, the back line is very vulnerable to a piercing/targeted attack, and without help they will fall.

The real anchor here of course, is Grimbow. Sick damage

        https://youtu.be/YCA4g66F5rc

        Cheers,
        OldBoy

 oldboy[eu8] Last edit in 2015-8-21 00:09:46

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imperator j
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Post time 2015-8-21 00:18:06 | Show all posts

On the issue of Control

        I don\'t think he was planning on running a control composition, thats just how the fight turned out. It looks more like he was running his best 5. I think if you played someone who could stop his GrimBow (i.e. BC) you probably wouldn\'t have lost any heroes.;

        Good points though, could be an interesting control composition with the changes you make.
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 imperator j Last edit in 2015-8-21 00:18:06

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saulmcg
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Post time 2015-8-22 04:01:44 | Show all posts

On the issue of Control


        I agree with imperator. His front line isn\'t particularly control. Edler dwarf would be a much better replacement over rose in this case, and NK has no actual utility. There just isn\'t enough cc based heroes to call this an overly control based team. I like the grimbow and SS combo to take down a front line early with grims burn, but I think a Nedeira to combo with his active and to provide a stun would make more sense then NK. Hecate is a lichpin for many top teams in our server and shes a great not quite healer not quite damage dealer but a great mix of both hero for control teams to utilize. Hecate/ Dwarf/ Guardian is a solid control setup that provide dmg boost to your two killers, heals, shields, cc. Its a pretty solid core. Even without the guardian, though. I think the RK should be dwarf for a non active required stun, and the pyro should have been hecate.
        Something like Dwarf Ned SS Grim Hecate Styx

        I do agree with needing to live long enough for all your control effects to make an impact being important.

        On a side note:
        Its interesting that you dont have your ccer behind your light envoy. A zerker claw behind her would have given her more opportunities to get rage off. I tend to like my night blade behind my dwarf, because if they both proc their passives (bleed and stun), then that enemy lane is basically dead. Have you tried it that way?
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oldboy[eu8]
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 Author| Post time 2015-8-22 06:31:40 | Show all posts

On the issue of Control

        Hi saulmcg,

        Yeah I\'ve run a NB/ED combo before, and definitely works well when they both proc. Though here I think I was stuck with the dilemma of needing to control the anchor, and the fear of giving Soul Slinger too much space. Envoy was also a newer hero for me, so I wasn\'t too confident with putting her against Grimbow. Pyrona\'s strength was another thing I didn\'t want to risk.

        After reviewing the match, I think dwarf would have been a better frontliner here than NK. That and the active stun from Hecate would have made this a pretty solid line-up.
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oldboy[eu8]
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 Author| Post time 2015-8-24 09:15:06 | Show all posts

On the issue of Control

        Hi,

        Been using up most of my challenge attempts lately, to really get a feel for what my teams can handle.;So today I decided to battle;one of highest ranking players on my server, Kiwi. Insofar as I know, he can take one of the Hellhound users on our server.
       

        Not much to say here though, his team was easily contained. I had absolutely no fear of his attackers, they gave my front line so much value.

Elder Dwarf kept Night Sentinel in line. Light Envoy got off her party buff before being permanently hexed while Hecate carried the both of them.

Note : Astral Child is very weak like this. She had absolutely no help from Pyrona.

       

        https://youtu.be/XD7kFkxA87Q

       

        Still looking for a good Athena team,
        OldBoy
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Post time 2015-8-29 11:54:20 | Show all posts

On the issue of Control


Reply 4# oldboy[eu8]
        I will say that a mermaid on a team that far into the game is questionable. Lumia does everything better when you factor in Athena as an angel, but I digress.;

        Athena is a good defensive set up angel. So if you want to time out your opponents, thats a great place to start.
        A team like:
        Light Envoy ;;ED
        Lumia ; ; ; ; ; Exorcist ; ; Hecate
        Athena
        -can be really tricky to take down. Exorcist should be used if you don\'t have a mino because this team would roll over and die to grimbow/ night blade/ mikaela/ flora without the DoT removal he offers and each of those listed things are only getting more and more common. Also, CC removal for Lumia can be hell for teams relying on a berserker claw to deal with her. The longer the she lives, the exponentially more useful she becomes.;Hecate could be another support champion like guardian, but I love her dearly and she really does fit into just about any line up (guardian can also clash with lumia in terms of who lumia stuns after guardian lowers the enemies attack).

        In terms of offensive teams she can work for a rage boosting, attack based team
        Blood Baroness; ;;Light Envoy ; ; ;;
        Lunar Priestess ; ; Guardian ; ; ; ; ;Demon Hunter/ Grimbow/ Ice Queen/ Night Blade/ NS
        Athena
        - This team uses blood baroness. Enough said. The reason that this is the case is because she will be getting lots of support from her three supports and is the best character that can go front line and provide enemy back row damage reliably to combo with the quick back row kill power of Demon Hunter/ Grimbow. Add that to the fact that she has a very high natural rage gain and there are a plethora of ways to stack additional rage and damage on her and she should be spinning often.;Both have their individual merits to warrant a spot and really any of the archers mentioned could work. Ice Queen is another uncommon choice that fills a niche with blood baroness in that she can aoe reduce def on the front line and as the primary dmg for the team, it is very nice that she is cc immune and wont fall victim to an unlucky zerker claw proc. This team can work without baroness, I just always wanted to use her and this is about the best set up she could pull off with athena. If I noticed baroness under performing, Im looking at you pyrona, I might opt to put blue witch behind her for the heavy cc protection offered or look to switch BB for the ever present Elder Dwarf,but then you run the risk of not having enough dmg to actually defeat your opponents team, and so it could be argued that perhaps NK or RK would be potentially better fits. Granted farming up the baroness pieces can take a LONG time. I\'m only nearly 4* on her myself...
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 saulmcg Last edit in 2015-8-29 11:54:20

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